We may have been cloaked in darkness and down poured with rain while recording this episode, but the story shined a light that trumped it all as we sat down with PaZa Winery Owner, Zane Dobson. His story, woven from Oklahoma roots to the fertile slopes of Auburn, California, is a toast to passion, precision, and the pursuit of dreams. Journey with us through the intimate evolution of PaZa Winery, a tale brimming with dedication, community spirit, and the meticulous artistry of cultivating vineyards and crafting wines.
Imagine trading the adrenaline rush of Porsche track racing for the patient nurturing of grapevines. This episode unveils the tapestry of life that our guest Zane has crafted. His odyssey spans from methodical life choices in engineering to the thrill of racing, and into the embrace of winemaking. Uncover his disciplined approach to hobbies that range from tennis to cars, and witness how a fervent passion for the vintner's craft has fashioned a vibrant and disciplined life story, ripe with focus and diverse interests.
Pull up a chair, pour yourself a glass, and glimpse the behind-the-scenes magic of PaZa Winery's personalized wine club and their dog-friendly, picnic-perfect vineyard. This episode is an exploration of the Dobsons' hands-on approach, from the art of grape selection to the nuances of yeast and organic cultivation. It's a heartfelt reflection on the challenges of harvest, the planning required in agriculture, and how they've captured the essence of their winery's charm in every bottle. So, join us as we uncover the beautiful synergy between life, love, and the pursuit of a dream nestled amongst the vines.
We may have been cloaked in darkness and down poured with rain while recording this episode, but the story shined a light that trumped it all as we sat down with PaZa Winery Owner, Zane Dobson. His story, woven from Oklahoma roots to the fertile slopes of Auburn, California, is a toast to passion, precision, and the pursuit of dreams. Journey with us through the intimate evolution of PaZa Winery, a tale brimming with dedication, community spirit, and the meticulous artistry of cultivating vineyards and crafting wines.
Imagine trading the adrenaline rush of Porsche track racing for the patient nurturing of grapevines. This episode unveils the tapestry of life that our guest Zane has crafted. His odyssey spans from methodical life choices in engineering to the thrill of racing, and into the embrace of winemaking. Uncover his disciplined approach to hobbies that range from tennis to cars, and witness how a fervent passion for the vintner's craft has fashioned a vibrant and disciplined life story, ripe with focus and diverse interests.
Pull up a chair, pour yourself a glass, and glimpse the behind-the-scenes magic of PaZa Winery's personalized wine club and their dog-friendly, picnic-perfect vineyard. This episode is an exploration of the Dobsons' hands-on approach, from the art of grape selection to the nuances of yeast and organic cultivation. It's a heartfelt reflection on the challenges of harvest, the planning required in agriculture, and how they've captured the essence of their winery's charm in every bottle. So, join us as we uncover the beautiful synergy between life, love, and the pursuit of a dream nestled amongst the vines.
Welcome back to Tell Us your Story. Northern California, we've had a couple of great episodes and what we're doing now is every third Thursday of the month, we're going to go out, we're going to meet with a restaurant or a winery, and we're not going to meet with them in the studio, we're actually going on location. We're going to sit at their facility, get to know them. Their staff really talk about why you should visit them as well and their entire story. This first winery which you're going to hear about today, pazale winery, was an incredible journey. It was a dark and rainy night, natasha.
Speaker 2:It was. First of all, I'm so excited to I'm hoping. I'm excited for the stories, but also I love to eat, I love to drink, so that's going to be really cool to try everything. But yes, when you think about winery, I thought like, oh my gosh, we're going to go out and it's going to be sunny and we're going to get great pictures. And you know, I looked at the map and when the road is like long and windy, just assume you're getting to somewhere with a great view, right, but it just wasn't the day and it was dark, it was rainy. I was hoping that I would get there. So it was quite the excursion. So we couldn't quite see it, but the conversation was fantastic and there's plans to we'll be, we'll be visiting.
Speaker 1:So Absolutely, and we got to meet with Zane Dobson and his wife Pam and they were incredible. They brought us in and recorded the episode right right in their home, in their kitchen.
Speaker 1:They shared some of their wines with us and we're going to go back. We're going to buy some wine. I encourage everyone who listens to this episode to get out there, meet with Zane and Pam. They're incredible hosts and they want you to come out and sit at their wine shed and enjoy the fruits of their labor as we talk about a winery. So really looking forward to this conversation and sharing it with everybody.
Speaker 2:Yes, the conversation in a bottle will have it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. Like I said, as we go through every Thursday, every third Thursday, we'll be having this conversation with the restaurant and the winery and we encourage all of our listeners to go out, meet the owners, meet the staff, let them know where you heard about them and give us some recommendations, tell us where to go, tell us who to talk to, and we'll be happy to do it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to Tell Us your Story, the podcast that tells the diverse stories of businesses, leaders and influencers throughout Northern California. Our mission is to ignite inspiration, foster education and bring our community together. Join us as we unravel the path to achievement, discovering how these remarkable businesses and leaders navigated obstacles, conquered hardships and transformed failures into success.
Speaker 1:In today's episode of Tell Us your Story we sit down with Zane Dobson, the owner of Pizzah winery. So it was an incredible journey to get out to see Zane and the winery and we got to meet him, his wife, and it was an incredible journey just to be welcome into his home, sit down at his kitchen table, record this episode and really talk about how we got to where he's at and listening to all of his different passions and paths and journeys to become a successful winemaker. So there's really three things that I think you're going to take away. Three things that I honed in on is one have you ever asked yourself what does an overachiever look like? And Zane would be the picture in the dictionary If I went and looked. As we go through his life, you're going to see that he does everything like he does anything and it's a thousand percent Incredibly curious man who asks a lot of questions and figures things out and is part of the community. So that's one of the big takeaways. The second is really going to be the joy and experience of winemaking. So Zane and his wife and this entire community is incredibly passionate about making wine. So everything from planning the grapes to bottling the wines, the family, the friends, the community everything that you would imagine that you would want to be as part of a community or part of a winery. Zane is going to walk you through, and that really leads us into the third part.
Speaker 1:As much as I would love to romanticize the business side of winemaking, it's a very, very challenging and it's a very, very difficult job. And the way that Zane put it, it's a lifestyle, not a passion project. And so if you're thinking about, hey, I want to get into the wine business, I want to own an orchard, this is really going to be a good opportunity for you to listen into someone who's gone through it, and what you're going to find out is you don't know what you don't know, and those things that you find out are not very easy to overcome all the time. Now Zane and his wife they have, and it's an incredible story, and so I look forward to everybody listening in. So stay motivated, stay inspired and enjoy this episode with Zane Dobson.
Speaker 3:So I grew up in Oklahoma, actually a little less known for fine wine and didn't even drink any wine really, until I moved out here to California. So I grew up on a small farm just outside of more Oklahoma and it's on the outskirts of Oklahoma City and yeah, just a wholesome only child, wholesome upbringing simple. Dad was a firefighter, had been a professional musician before that. Mother also worked in, she worked in aviation and executive secretary and yeah, just very fun, wholesome youth time, you know was it a smaller town?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, no, actually. So this was during the oil boom, so in the 70s, late 70s, early 80s it exploded. So much like Roseville, Rockland has grown a lot in the last 10 years, 15 years so more actually grew to like 70,000 people in that time. So housing industry was big and the oil industry was huge.
Speaker 1:So dad was a fireman, so farmer on top of it. So when you say you grew up on a farm.
Speaker 2:I have this vision.
Speaker 3:Well, just as he always had a huge garden and when I think back about that I think what the opportunity missed you know where at that time, nobody was really into the farmers market type things, so they gave most of the vegetables away to the firefighters and friends and others. So, and did you have cattle? We usually had two or three head of cows and, yeah, maybe a couple pigs here and there, and yeah, so Natasha and I grew up in City Life, so what's a day for you like?
Speaker 1:growing up on the farm? Was it just?
Speaker 3:you know the chores that you hated as a kid all the cleaning and doing things and taking care of livestock before you go to school and you thought it was the worst, but it was really not that bad when you look back. Yeah, it was not that hard. And so I also had other relatives uncles and aunts that that lived in Eastern Oklahoma and had ranches. So they would have 300 cows. And so that's. I would spend my summers usually on those ranches working and learning.
Speaker 1:ethics of camp was not part of my vocabulary early on, so and so, as you were growing up, what kind of student were you? Were you an academic?
Speaker 3:I was not a good student. So, yeah, I like sports, but didn't really excel in that, in sports. I was not into school really at all at the time growing up. What?
Speaker 2:was the passions? What were your?
Speaker 3:passions More artistic of anything. Yeah, in school was more art and design and then I got into drafting design, okay, and then that that was my first career actually was early days of CAD, computer aided drafting, and got into that and just started working towards my career. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So, as you were going through high school, what was, what was the dream? Did you know? What you wanted to do. At that time you said you were starting to find out In high school it was.
Speaker 3:I wanted to be out cruising, you know, in the hot rod and, and yeah, it was a dream to be a racer, drag racing or some sort of thing. Yeah, so cars were a big passion early on.
Speaker 2:And was leaving Oklahoma in the cards, or did you think you?
Speaker 3:No, no, so I yeah, I was content to be in Oklahoma for the rest of my life, and life changes, and so that's. That's further into the story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll get into it. So the image is starting to come to me. So, working hard during the summers, you have your chores. In the morning, you have a hot rod, did you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So from I mean, it's so funny now how kids, some kids don't even care about getting their driver's license, you know, and that was my main goal. So I was working from like age 14, trying to make money to buy a car and then just slowly parlay that into a better car and another car and finally into a, you know, pretty serious little street machine, and so, yeah, and so is.
Speaker 1:Are you one of those that had the car at home and you were working on it?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, so yeah, it was kind of funny because my dad was not really ever into, he was not really mechanically inclined necessarily, and so that was another part of my youth was in music. So as he was a musician, I played trumpet. I grew up around all the instruments and all the people that he had played with were just, they were stars, but they didn't seem that to me. They seemed like normal people.
Speaker 3:So, it was just natural to pick up a guitar, or pick up the piano or drums, and just they were always available to learn to play and just so would you say you were a ladies man. No, no, no I think, yeah, I was probably. I was probably going to be shy at that time. Yeah, the cars were my thing, so yeah.
Speaker 2:Did you get in trouble with the cars? Oh yeah, Definitely.
Speaker 3:Tickets yeah, definitely got stopped for speeding here and there and yeah, through the years I wonder.
Speaker 2:I'm sure they have those, my, my grandmother's from Mississippi. She actually retired and moved back there and they just have these. Like everything's these just long roads, like it just seems like there's always room for, you know, cars and woods, and things like that it's gonna be crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Jumping back into it. So you're in high school. What was, what was the dream as you're going through your junior year, senior year, Was it college? Was it musician mechanic?
Speaker 3:anything else. I feel like it was. You know that my direction was just to my parents offered to pay for me to go to OU, which was close, and but at the same time I was just ready to get out on my own, get a job, and that's just the way I thought at that time. Later on I went back and went to college and and got serious about it, but it took a few years off. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I wasn't really interested in anything else during high school, necessarily, other than getting out and getting a job and moving on to work.
Speaker 2:And they were open to that offered to school, but they were fine if you didn't go, yeah.
Speaker 1:So walk us through that as you graduate high school. What did you do for that couple of years? Did you leave home right away?
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah. So I moved out on my own with a roommate that kind of the same direction. He had a different, he had a job and everything. We had our jobs and, yeah, we just want to be out on our own and start our life. And what were?
Speaker 1:you doing for work.
Speaker 3:So at that time I was working in carpentry. Actually, some of my first jobs were related to the oil boom. You know, because either you worked in housing and building houses in some way, working in that, or you work in the oil field. And for me, I had a lot of friends that worked in the oil field. They worked a lot of long hours, hard, and they were exposed to drugs and alcohol.
Speaker 3:And it was not the way I wanted to go, so I started as a trim carpentry in 16. I started that and so it was just the easy continuation on until I was 20 or so, 1920.
Speaker 1:And so then, what brought you back to school?
Speaker 3:So you took a couple years off, so I met my first wife and there's always a woman involved, just so you know.
Speaker 3:And she kind of helped give me better direction and give me an interest in being better and doing something more. And so I went back and started in the same I started. What I really liked was drafting and design, and CAD was just really in the pioneer stages at that time. So this was around 1983, 82, 83. So unfortunately I got a job and so I finished my associates degree. But then I got the job and I was like ready to move on and start making money I really wasn't interested in.
Speaker 3:Unfortunately, I look back at it now and I realize I would have been better off to continue and got my bachelor's in engineering and finish. But I was content and happy to get out in the world and I actually so and I've always made it work. I guess I've always been given opportunities and, through that time in the next three or four or five years, given opportunities to improve and step up and learn from others, and so that just continued to grow.
Speaker 1:And so through that time, so you said, you met your first wife. So, as you're going through and getting your associates, what's the personal life look like? Are you getting married during that time?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got married at 23, 23, 24, got married and you know, living in that efficiency apartment and trying to find as many things as you can for free, yeah, and started playing tennis and all these different things that we could do for free and not have to go spend money and save towards buying a house you know, and real estate in Oklahoma is much easier. Yeah, it's still. It's relative though for your income compared. So just, we work towards that and by age 25, we were buying a house.
Speaker 1:Oh, very nice. And kids along the way, no, no kids.
Speaker 3:We had made a decision early on to wait and so we waited. And then I got into Porsches. That was my first serious passion. So we saved and by age 27, I bought my first Porsche and within the next year or so I was doing track events and learning how to do performance driving and racing on road courses Cars not kids. It's a completely different direction here. So that was my first serious passion before wine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so walk us through that a little bit.
Speaker 3:So what does that world look like? This is big.
Speaker 1:You get your first Porsche and you said you're, you're taking it to the track, you racing yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I wasn't racing right off, right off the bat, but immediately got involved with the Porsche Club, porsche Club of America, and got involved and then got involved as an officer. You know, eventually, in the next two or three years, was president for that region and then, you know, doing track events along the way, doing multi region events, with all our car clubs coming together and doing things and organizing activities and leading the club for several years.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that's coming out early in the conversation is just your perceived. I'm going to dig into it a little bit, but you're disciplining your focus to whatever it is you want to do. You wanted to leave home. You went and got a job and you're going down and you know you want to get a Porsche. You'll get a Porsche. So, where does that stem from? Where does it come from?
Speaker 3:I don't know, man, I don't know, I don't know, I know that.
Speaker 2:It's also diverse.
Speaker 3:And that, though that is true because, just like with the winery, we wanted to do it, we did it, we didn't have anybody try to talk us out of it. And in the same, with the racing, you know, nobody said I couldn't. So I just worked my way towards and I just always networking and talking to people and learning, listening and just going for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're inserting yourself into that culture and I'm sure you were a fan, but you know of the racing culture. So how does it progress?
Speaker 3:You talk about learning or you have mentors within there that you're sitting down with and learning and definitely like when you when you go to a track event, when you go for your first track events, you have instructors. You're assigned because you're a rookie driver, you're a green novice, so you have instructors to help you. They ride with you and show you the line and show you how to drive around the road course and, yeah, just over time you just continue to improve and get better and then, before you know it, you're an instructor doing the same.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make it sound so easy. I don't think it's just all of a sudden like you put the work in. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was just a passion that focused everything on, just like with the wine. When I got into the wine business, I focused everything you know on that and with the cars it was just. That was my life, that was all I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:And when you say focused it, there's a knowledge piece to that I would imagine. Are you a big learner? Are you consumption of? I think?
Speaker 3:yeah, definitely I think so. So and so I worked as my for my career. I worked in the engineering and I worked my way into aviation design engineering with that and attention to detail and just really digging into the information and learning and everything I can, and that was my, that was my job. The engineering side, working in aviation, was great, but that was not really what I wanted to do. I wanted to race, so I worked to pay for my habit, you know, for my hobby and passion, and work towards trying to do it as a profession actually.
Speaker 2:So there's also a so the discipline and the focus it sounds like when you really latch on, when it's a passion. But you seem very diverse. Before the podcast we would laugh because I was like actively searching for a hobby and as they listen to your story, there's music and there's carpentry and there's cars and racing and you work into wine. So that's it's you. I guess your interest, whatever you do, you feel like that open or diverse or whatever just sparked your interest at the time.
Speaker 3:It's probably OCD somewhat when I get into one thing yeah, maybe I over focus, weight everything on that and dig you know everything I can and try to learn everything I can.
Speaker 2:Not everybody says open, they might pick. You know one thing or? Have this way, but it seems like you were interested and tried. You know multiple things, I guess.
Speaker 3:And I've probably been hard on myself to in my mind to think, okay, I need to focus on something and just try to excel at that. But yeah, just try to do the best at everything I can.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, I'm trying to assess like we've been sitting down this for a half hour been at your house, so I'm trying to assess and figure out. There's a part of you that is very concise and disciplined, and then you drive a race car and you do all these different things. So are you a risk taker or are you not so much? I can't tell.
Speaker 3:I don't feel like it. I don't feel like I'm a risk because for in racing I mean, everything is very calculated, very specific. When you practice and you're in tune with the car and the way the car is set up and everything else, you know. That was the other you learn and everything you can about the mechanics of why it works the way it does, and so maybe it didn't feel like it's really understood.
Speaker 1:You understand?
Speaker 3:you know it felt controlled and felt fine fun you know, and that was the thing it was fun, you know, and the people that I, that I met through it. I mean I still have so many friends today that are so genuine, great friends that I made all around the world, all around the country, you know so yeah, it's incredible.
Speaker 1:It's one of the things we talked before we started the podcast about my kids and the things that I like to tell them. But you know, you created that passion in your hobby and you have friends, you know, years later, but you're dedicated yourself to well, it's a hobby, it's a culture which definitely leads to networking and friends and opportunities and opening up the world and the people that you know, versus just staying in one one lane and then you can speak, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I want to ask as we go through your 20s into your 30s, you said your first marriage. So how long did the first marriage last? And high level directionally, yeah, what?
Speaker 3:happened. So I think the growth changes and it's the nicest way I can say. And so I had had a sister. I had two sisters that grew up here in California and one lives just a few miles from us and she used to work with Pamela, my wife, and so we met many years ago and there was just a spark there. And so at the end of my 30s I was going through some checks in my life and thinking I was not in the right place and wasn't where I wanted to be for the rest of my life. So I was open to change and contacted Pamela and I was just happened to coincidentally be coming out here to work a race. So I worked for the, for the National Portia Club, in racing as a, as a scrutiny or we would do the rules and regulations, and I was working a race at Sonoma and I called her up and decided to just dive, just another thing where.
Speaker 2:I decided to go for it.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I was just how much did you say hey, president of the Porsche Club is coming out. Come out to the race.
Speaker 3:This coolness is coming out.
Speaker 1:No you'd be in humble, but there has to be some of that there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just. I decided at that point in life I was interested in just making a change and go for it. It was at love at first sight. It was close to that.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I was working in Sonoma. She would not come to the track on the first night or the first day, and she asked me, though, to come to Roseville to dinner. So I came to her house, and I just almost immediately knew, when she opened the door, that that was in the right place, and before the end of that weekend I knew it. So how many years ago was that 20? 20 years ago, almost 21.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we were still living in Oklahoma, though, and so you were just out here Was it a pretty quick decision like, oh, we're gonna, yeah it was. I came back out in November. We did the run to feed the families run, walk and with all her family. And so by Christmas, I was proposing, and by February, the next, in 2003, I was moving here. So so had the moving truck with the Porsche on the trailer, Packed it up and it was heading to California. So within a year it was so it on.
Speaker 3:Honestly though it was, it did make it easier Because my sister and family were here too, you know, and they were always accepting to say hey, if you want to make a change in your life, you can always come and stay with us. So that was nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to say you're a risk taker.
Speaker 3:So I'm talking about your. Now you're moving. I think I am.
Speaker 1:Oklahoma to California, which is a big change, even though Northern California is different than what most people think of California, especially where we're at. But that's a massive change. And he has it in C really.
Speaker 3:No, it really wasn't I just I guess I was at a point in life to really make the change and so I would always come out and visit my sister and family in an Auburn area just was always felt comfortable. It felt like a place I would love to be. So that was pretty easy, you know. It was just a very comfortable transition.
Speaker 1:And so what were you doing for work when you came out?
Speaker 3:I was working in aviation engineering design. I was working for a, so I had worked for 10 plus years. Prior to that I'd worked for a company building a small, a four place propeller luxury airplane, propeller driven and that is a really tough market and especially before nine eleven it was, it was getting difficult to sell that kind of product. Very neat, try did a lot. Yeah, it was a much smarter business moves to purchase a used airplane, not a brand new. So but it was a great team. We worked with about 175 people. I was one of only five engineering design, flight test, engineering work. We did a lot of development and yeah, times changed after nine eleven and that market kind of tanked and I ended up getting back on my feet and got a job with another in a general contractor for the Air Force. So I was working for that company and basically maintenance and records, design, cad work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, super interesting. So when does wine start to become important to you? Is it up to now it did not.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it didn't until I moved out here.
Speaker 1:So and right away, or Explain to us how this yeah, so it happened.
Speaker 3:So not long after I moved to California in 2003. Prior to that I'd only had probably two or three glasses of wine in my life, and mostly beer and spirits in Oklahoma, so moved out here and Pamela and her friends love to go wine tasting and so we would go like the passport weekend to El Dorado County and this was pretty fun. This is like 15 of your friends going and get a rent a van and have one of your friends who's pregnant to be the driver.
Speaker 3:And not to worry and just go and have a and you pay one price and you get the drink for free every all these wineries. And 20 years ago we would go to those smaller wineries back then and you get to meet the owner or the winemaker and this little fantasy kind of started. We wanted something more. I think we. Pamela worked in the grocery business. Her career was she was a manager and for Save Mart and Albertsons and Lucky's before that. So like 43 years in that business and she also she had worked with wine. Through that she had been exposed to the wine world. So early on in the grocery career she had got chances to go on these wine junkets or, you know, trips to Napa where they take the managers and they get to learn and taste and learn more of why wine is the way it is what makes it special, and so so it was a combination of the interest in the wine, but also just the experience and the atmosphere of the winery.
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 3:I think that's. We didn't really know everything that we needed to know at that time, but that fantasy began. Yeah, like I say, you know, you just talking to the owners or the winemakers and you're like this is a pretty cool gig. You know, you don't know all the serious work that goes into it when you're that starting out, that naive.
Speaker 2:Was it a kitchen table conversation like oh, what about?
Speaker 1:couple of balls of wine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't remember.
Speaker 3:I can't remember that. If it was, I think it was, I think it was a shared passion and a spark and I probably could be to blame for it again to just decide you know, this would be a nice supplemental income to do some something else and also be able to live here On a nice property and, and you know, just look out at your vineyard every day and have your coffee in the morning. And little did we know how much work would go into it.
Speaker 1:So it's sort of off as a dream.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was just another dream, another, another fantasy that just evolved and it really developed into a serious passion. And the more we learned, the more we decided to just go for it and we consulted with some of the other wineries at that time. This is 2004, 2005. So early on in our marriage, and we talked to some different winery owners and had them, you know, tell us the good and the bad. And they didn't tell us enough of the bad, so we didn't know any better. We just decided oh, we can do this, you know, we just had to buy the property. You have X amount of vines, you can produce X amount of gallons of wine. So, hey, sounds easy.
Speaker 2:So you know, ignorance is what it's like. Let's go for it.
Speaker 3:How much you don't know is yeah, it's are you still?
Speaker 2:are you still doing the cars racing at this time?
Speaker 3:I know I tapered off of that, yeah I. So when I first moved to California, I was still doing, I was instructing track events, I was helping new drivers and, as I was also flying back to Oklahoma and Texas and racing, two or three different races, but yeah tapered off and, yeah, I kind of changed my direction. New passion, yeah, I traded one for the other.
Speaker 1:All right. So I want to start talking about your winery, how you, how we got to where we're at today, and I'm going to get into a lot of the details because, to your point, no one told you all of the details and I'm coming from a curious place and I know a lot of people will. So one of our guests we had put something out there that we were going to come to a, you know, interview at a winery and said hey, what questions do you have? So how did you pick this region? So one of our guests, amy, said hey, ask this question. How did you pick this region?
Speaker 3:So we're first started looking and we were thinking, as I mentioned, my sister living here, I always loved Auburn at that time, 2004,. Five, there were only three or four other wineries that have been established for probably four or five years prior to that. And then we were looking at El Dorado and we're thinking, if we're both still working full time, so we're kind of considering the commute as part of that, but also this is where our roots. Pamela's father lives here in Auburn, my family. So that was one of the reasons and we just we love this, this area, and we started to learn more about how this was a burgeoning region. It was really starting to get going and start to pick up some notoriety that they could do some of the same varietals, some of the same great wines that you find throughout the foothills. So, and the prices were a little bit better than what we were finding in El Dorado County and Amador. So, yeah, we started looking and it was like I was mentioning.
Speaker 3:It was, yeah, we looked at a lot of junk. Sometimes it was so you got to remember too. This was 2005, 2004,. 2005 was before the downturn of the real estate in the economy kind of took a dump there, and so, yeah, we had a great house in Roseville and then we had to hold on to it for a while after we bought this property and wait for them you know somebody, the right person, to come along and buy that place. But that's in a whole other deal, yeah.
Speaker 1:So how did you go about? Did you put together a business plan? Was it like? Was it scribbled out on pads of paper or was it a formal business plan?
Speaker 3:To walk us through that. So I wish I would have spent more time in business management, business administration, in school and learn more from that. I didn't, so I did the best business plan I could at the time, which was scouring the internet and trying to find reports and information about what scale that we were planning. You know a small scale, three acre, to start with Vineyard, and how much that production would cost to do. I wish I would have had more data. Now, 20 years later, there's a ton of information out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah fine and you can. You can mine so much information, but that's that was what I. You know, I just dug in and it wasn't savvy as far as business management enough to really do a professional business plan, and we were also planning to basically loan ourselves the money we weren't going for a business loan to fund our operation, our dream.
Speaker 1:So by the property and, parallel to that, as you're building your plan out, you're looking at the vineyards and correct me where I, because I'm not going to know all of the language but you're looking at, you have three acres at the time, three acres still so we had, there were no vines, so we planted the vines.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we planted all the vines in 2007. So it's, it's almost three acres and vines Got it.
Speaker 1:So you go through all of that math. How much of vine produces what you're, what you're going to get as far as you're looking in?
Speaker 3:Okay, in a perfect world this vine should create and in three years after you plant it, you'll get some grapes. Not not very much in that third year, but then you're planning for the fifth and seventh and it gets better and better. But yeah you're calculating, oh that, this is easy. You can get this much. You can get 12 pounds from each vine.
Speaker 2:The math part of it. So, looking at of how much they produce, were you fully confident in how to actually like, grow the grapes and make the wine? No, you're just like this. That's where again that's where again.
Speaker 3:Where, just like when I joined the Porsche Club, way back in those early days, I joined this local region here, plaster County Wine and Grape Growers Association, which at that time was a combination of commercial growers, commercial wineries as well as home winemakers and some just growers and some just enthusiasts. So I joined that group and dove into that the same way and worked my way up to be president at one point and, you know, help and run the events and things. But just networking and talking to people and asking, never being afraid to ask questions, never having that I think that's the thing is put the egos away. And if you want to learn, that's definitely got to put the egos aside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I'm going to tell you you're a risk taker without a doubt.
Speaker 1:You opened up a winery now and you're figuring it all out. So there's, there's, I have a philosophy, and not everybody agrees with it and kind of aligns with the story I'm hearing. But sometimes you just have to take the step and the path opens. It's a quote, right Like if you sit and wait for everything to be perfect, you're going to be sitting and waiting forever, Not to say that there's not due diligence, that needs to be done, but you have to take action and you sound like everything I'm hearing from you. You take action and start to go down that path and as I hear the story coming out, I can see the joy in you. And it was that journey fun when you, when you're thinking back on it, was it a fun part, I imagine?
Speaker 3:it was stressful but was it fun. Oh yeah, I mean from the beginning of the journey, so Figured out on my own and asking for some help here and there as far as how do I do this vineyard thing. But then my engineering brain helped with laying out the vineyard from the beginning and Getting set and deciding what how many vines can we put on this space and Then having the friends and family come and help plant. So we set that up so we could have several weekends.
Speaker 1:What that's an incredible memories, yeah, with family and oh yeah yeah, and wine was involved.
Speaker 2:You know that was a beauty.
Speaker 3:Food and wine was the beauty that that brought it even better times and memories that, yeah, we still talk about now price, though?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Or people very encouraging. Were there people that were telling you you're crazy?
Speaker 3:There was not enough people telling me that was crazy. Yeah, so that's something. Now, after being in it for many years, feeling like I'm I'm not a veteran, but I do my best, honestly. So we, when we have other new newbies coming in, I do my best to talk him off the ledge and talk him down, because I know how hard it is and I know when I was 43 I could work a lot harder and I could spend a lot more hours doing more stuff. And so many others have kids, they have a family, and I know that there's gonna be some sacrifices they're gonna have to make. They're gonna have to face that or they're not gonna make it. It's just gonna be a hobby or a pet project and and Although they have plenty of years to work, work on up and work towards it, it's gonna cause some some struggles that they don't really need to face. You know they got to have some serious passion and hard head to deal with it.
Speaker 1:How many people do you think romanticize? Oh, I mean the one reverse double most yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we did. I'm sure we that was. You know, this is what carried us through, because you fall in love with the experience.
Speaker 2:I think it's so. You fall in love with the idea.
Speaker 3:It's a culture, it's a lifestyle. We used to say yes, no, it's not a job, it's a lifestyle. There's a job too, but. But we get to drink on the job.
Speaker 2:So you use the word sacrifice and I think for a lot of Business owners and business starters like that's absolutely something that you need to be aware of so. Anything come to mind with, no matter if it's wine or if it's any business like. What types of sacrifices are your time?
Speaker 3:If number one you've got, if you can't, if you don't have the funding, the finances to pay somebody to do it, you've got to do it yourself. So you've got to sacrifice your time. And and then so for us, when we open the tasting shed doing public tastings. We've been open 13 years, almost 14 years now, and so in those first five or six years I Would run the tastings on Saturday because Pamela was working at her day job, and then Sunday we would Both do the tastings or I would be in the winery doing stuff Because we both had full-time jobs during the week.
Speaker 2:So yeah, we can't yeah, but we didn't think about it.
Speaker 3:Really it was not. I mean it was if it's a, if it's something you really love and it's a passion. You don't see it as hard work. Yeah, it's just, you've got to do this to get to that.
Speaker 1:So so, as you're going through, you said something to me I didn't know. So it takes about three years for that first line to produce. Great, so during that first three years, I Would imagine you're preparing for the winery and everything. Yeah, what are you doing parallel to that?
Speaker 3:What would you call? It is the first crop. Yeah, so, and before that, even so, every day when we get home from work, in those first three years, we would come home, pamela and I would come home and hit the vineyard and go out and train. So, you, you train the vines up, so, and For that through three, three acres yeah 2,500 vines.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so if you just face that, you're just gonna do as much as you can until dark and Then take a break and drink some wine and how often do you have to train the vine, just what?
Speaker 3:once you get them trained, they're trained, but then you prune them every year, okay. But yeah, the training was Something that we just we would come home from work and do it, you know, and go out there and tie and you bend a Vine over onto the wire on the trellis wire, tie it and then you go a few days later Hopefully you're a week later you train the other side and then you might come home and go out and check and the deer have Come in and snack. Oh, your work, and you're frustrated and the vine just gets stronger and so you train it again. So in the third year we get a small crop for our vineyard. We only like. In that third year we only got like four and a half barrels total. So now, 17 years in, we drop a lot of excess fruit Because the vines could produce way more than we need and we want to make premium wine, not just red wine, so we would make. It's works out to be 12 tons, 13 tons, so every year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh wow, yeah, there's some days.
Speaker 3:It's like yeah, it fluctuates because of mother nature and the weather.
Speaker 1:So so take let's go back just a little bit, so that first three years, as though you're Waiting on your vines to produce grapes, yeah, so what are some of the challenges that you're running into? We're, and I want, specifically want, to know what are some of the times that you said I just what, what? Why did we do this?
Speaker 3:Oh, didn't that didn't really happen. I didn't didn't really ever stop and say we shouldn't have done this or this is you know, this is a mistake or this is not what I've signed up. We just Accepted that. Oh, we forgot. Now we need to do deer fence. We should have factored that in First and put the deer fence up, and so so you learn once and then yeah. Yeah, so we spent the money then to do that, and what other?
Speaker 1:what other learnings did you have that?
Speaker 3:There is many other things as far as pruning, letting the vines get a little too carried away, because I was pruning everything by myself and I was trying to do the best I could, but I was like I Don't want to hurt the vine, I don't want to. It's doing so well, why would I cut it back so far? And then you learn, oh, if you prune it back, it's gonna do better, it's gonna make good roots, good foundation and make better grapes, and so and that's just learning right.
Speaker 1:That's experience. Yeah, and so when you come up to that first four and a half barrels, he said, yeah, so did you Obsess over what type of wine you were gonna make, did you?
Speaker 3:know, oh, so that this Something we should cover more about. So the varietals that we chose we did a lot of research as far as what varietals would do well in the area, what other people are growing and what we like the varietals that we like and so that's. I worked with a nursery. It was very helpful and guided us for what rootstock and which Vines to grow.
Speaker 1:So so it's a three-year investment. What what happens, it doesn't come out the way you thought, you well.
Speaker 3:That's it. Then you can graft. So originally I planted shardiné. We Chose five varietals shardiné in the day 20 years ago. I really liked shardiné, I like to drink it, and so I was told that it was probably not the best varietal to grow here in our area because it's warm, too warm for it. It's a thinner skin. I Went for it anyway, but I also. It was a small portion, and then I planted pre-mativot, which is the same grape as Zinfandel, and petit-sur-ah, and Barbera, which is a very popular grape in the foothills, one of my favorite ones.
Speaker 3:Yeah and so we started with that and After three years or so I realized that I was really spending a lot of time trying to make the Chardonnay into something more that people would expect, like people that like nap a Chardonnay. You know it's not going to be that. In the foothills region it's a different climate. So we grafted. So in those cases you can graft. If you have the rootstock or the, if you have the scions or the cuttings, you can graft onto an existing vine so you don't have to wait three more years. You can actually get a crop in the first year. So we cut like a 10 year old vine. We cut and grafted alboreño. It was a Spanish white that we grow, so I had planted it in a couple of spots and found it did really so much better.
Speaker 1:So and so that first year where you have those four barrels, walk us through the wine making process. So how did, how did? How did you? How do you make wine? So how did you come up with your recipe? What's that process?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, first of all, picking back in those days for the first five or six years we would have friends and family come and help pick. So it was a long day and it was nice. We had wine and food and everybody and our camaraderie and our family and friends. It was great but it took a long time. That was fun. And then, as far as the wine making side, I had other good friends that I made through relationships. They were great wine makers so I would help them, I would go and before we had the grapes available for our production, I would go help them make wine at their place. So I would kind of be like the free intern and help and learn. And they were. They became mentors.
Speaker 1:So what goes into from grape to wine? What can you add to wines Like? I don't want your recipe, obviously, but there's, we don't add any, so it's just the grapes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just grapes. It does seem easy so yeah, and so in those in those early years I learned some really good practices from other locals and others listen to other podcasts actually and learning, but you know it's. Then it's just a decision on if you want to use a different yeast or if you want to wild wild yeast, or how your practices there evolve or change.
Speaker 1:And how long did you experiment? I want to get into it.
Speaker 3:I didn't experiment, so I had no room for error. No, there was no option for failure. So, especially when I started for four and a half barrels, so I just took care of the wine, I just did the things that I had been shown and taught and don't mess it up.
Speaker 2:So how many bottles is a barrel?
Speaker 3:just one barrel is 300, roughly 300 bottles, 25 cases for a 60 gallon barrel.
Speaker 2:And the plan was to bottle and sell. Yeah, you're just going to sell them right away.
Speaker 3:We're just going to start and then the next year would come in. We were hoping and planning that the next year would be a little bit bigger crop, and it was, and what was the plan, I guess, for selling.
Speaker 2:So you have obviously people who know you. But were there, did you think like go to market?
Speaker 3:Was that an easier process or we never have been interested in doing any kind of wholesale, necessarily through a distributor. We wanted to do primarily direct sales here on the property and do some wholesale through local restaurants, mainly just for the exposure. And that's where we're still at. We don't really need to do a lot of excess or outside sales. That was our plan from the beginning was sell everything right here. So we started out with two temporary gazebos here at the on the property and we realized how California weather is very mild and we can get away with outdoor tastings almost throughout the year. And so then a few years later, we constructed the tasting shed, which is wish we could see in the daylight. But and that's what's worked for us for 13 years now, almost it's yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was a lot of sorry network, the people it's.
Speaker 3:No, I guess that originally it was just if you open it, they will come. We hoped and we were one of the few we were kind of by ourselves on an island out here in the middle of the trail the wine trail at that time. So there were another five or six wineries at that time that we're developing and opening, but not that much. So now we're fortunate there's 2022 and we have neighbor wineries nearby. So, yeah, very lucky.
Speaker 1:And so I got to go back to the winemaking process. So we're, we have a couple of bottles here, so what are we drinking? What do we have out?
Speaker 3:so we just had the coach to plaster, which is our play on the coach to roam. It's a granage Sarama Vedra blend. So as time went with our vineyard we liked other varietals and we wanted to make additional wines. So networking again. We have friends that are just about three miles northwest that have a really nice vineyard that they don't use all the grapes. So my guys now take care of their vineyard and in the farming and the pruning and everything. So we get Grenache, sarama Vedra and Vignier and Grenache Blanc from them, additional grapes so we can make a different things, we can diversify. And then we have the petite saurage which is here on our property. Petite saurage kind of been our star over the years. It's a really nice blender for a lot of Napa wineries. They don't really do it 100% like we do, so they'll blend it into Cabernet a lot of times, but we find that it does great by itself.
Speaker 1:So both of these are incredible.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I, because I don't know how wine is made. I can't connect the dots yet. So is it in from the time you you plant the vine, the way you take care of the great, and then is it have something to do with how much of the yeast you put in versus how am I going to get if I go and have five of the same wines? What is the difference in flavors? How is?
Speaker 3:that happening? I'm glad you asked. So I feel that it is the place where it's grown makes the difference. So we have been organic since the beginning. We do a lot of wheat eating and no roundup spray, so that's one thing that we have peace of mind.
Speaker 1:So all of that will impact the flavor we feel it does.
Speaker 3:And also the way we farm though. So we irrigate as needed, we try to balance the irrigation with the vines needs. We don't do dry farming but we try to keep the vines happy and we do some canopy manipulation or working with the canopy so there's a perfect amount of sunlight, but then we also drop a lot of excess fruit. So, as I mentioned earlier, the vines could produce way more than we need. I'm talking. A number of the vines could produce seven tons per acre. Maybe more easily we narrow that down to three and a half to four tons per acre.
Speaker 3:We feel like that gives more balance, ripening and more intense flavors. So just makes it easier for the vines to get the grapes ripe, and we go for natural ripeness. We don't try to go over, we don't try to go big. That's just my style and, as I mentioned, we do a combination different, different grapes. I do specific yeast for some and I do wild yeast for others, just stylistic decisions we've made through the years. But yeah, and I think that is a way we just try to get the best fruit we can to make what we do easier.
Speaker 1:Very detailed, very nuanced.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we don't make a lot, you know we're at the moment. We're happy to be under a thousand case production.
Speaker 1:A thousand case per year total year bottles 12,000.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm more than that. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Somewhere yeah.
Speaker 3:So it ends up being about 24 barrels of reds and the rest are for the whites, and rosé and tanks.
Speaker 1:So how many wines let's get into the wine. How many wines do you come back out?
Speaker 3:I make around 15 different wines. We don't have them all the time. We don't have all the wines all the time because I don't want you to be confused and drunk. So we just feel like it's better for us to have three reds, three or four reds at one time, and a rosé and a couple of whites, you know, or two or three reds is nice and a white wine is really a nice thing. So we have a rotation through the year. So we're released different things like this the Coates of Placer has been sold out, so we'll release the next one in the spring, later on.
Speaker 1:And so what's the wine club? Look like here. Do you have a wine club? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So our wine club is very simple, very laid back and typically our wine clubbers are people that ask us about it because we don't push. It's no reason. We do two releases per year, a spring and a fall, and they have the option if they wanna do two bottles or four bottles, and they can do additional for additional discounts. So it's easy. But our wine clubbers always get the first dibs on the new releases or the special library releases that I might decide. We have no reason to keep four cases of a scrappy red or a blend that we do and then we can offer that.
Speaker 1:And so do you have a favorite? Is there a favorite that you go back to every year?
Speaker 3:No, I think I like all my wines that are like my kids. Some of my wines I like more with food but like the Coates de Placer, we do a Saint-Giovese. That's beautiful, it's easy drinking, it's light, but it's there. It's a beautiful fruit. We do a great Vignet. I mean I like all of our wines.
Speaker 2:You like them all yeah.
Speaker 3:Different times. But the beauty is too. We get to taste them. So we may release a wine in April that's only been bottled in February and it's still settling in. So we know what it tasted like before we bottled it. And it's getting better and better. And then by May and June it's getting back to its really happy sweet spot and it tastes beautiful and they age really nice. So by July it's at its peak. It's beautiful, but it's sold out because we only make typically we'll make between 50 and 150 cases per varietal. We don't make a lot of each one, so it's incredibly interesting, oh doctors.
Speaker 2:That's Hank, this is.
Speaker 1:Hank.
Speaker 3:Hank, does Hank roam the winery? Hank has already been your dog. He has grown up here since he was just a little puppy. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Does he like the guests? He doesn't like them.
Speaker 3:No, he's always. He's a good boy.
Speaker 2:So walk us through what a Saturday and Sunday is here, Because it looks like the experience here that one that you fell in love with, the property you, you know, maybe get, and that's what we try to convey to people.
Speaker 3:And that's how we set up the shed. Maybe that's a little bit of my Oklahoma roots kind of style, you know, laid back and relaxing so that people can bring their dog or they can bring a picnic. You know we have chakoutery and things like that available, but people we encourage people to bring their own picnic and family and hang out and relax, because the shed sits just above the vineyard so you can set and enjoy the views. And yeah, it gets it's Northern California, it gets pretty toasty in August, you know, but people still come out and enjoy because they can have a chilled rosé or you know an albarino or something and just relax.
Speaker 3:That's our thing. And when they drive in they're like, wow, you guys are this hidden jewel? And it's like, yeah, but you never know when there could be 40 people here enjoying this setting, and sometimes they come when there's 10 or two. You know Every weekend's different. So, yeah, every time we turn around it's like somebody has thought we didn't know there were wineries here in Placer County and it's like we hear that a lot.
Speaker 1:And so are you and Pamela out here every weekend. We are on site.
Speaker 3:We also have Cindy, cindy Vining that works for us so she's our operations manager, so she runs our tastings. But we're always here to help when it gets too busy. But a lot of times, like this last week and I was down at the winery doing I've been transferring wine and trying to get all the new wine set for bottling, all the stuff that was from 21. I don't know what I mean. I'd say no, that's perfect for the sheets.
Speaker 1:I love it. You're saying hi, so on any of those weekends are you when you can, are you out engaging with the people that are here, and that's what I love.
Speaker 3:So I would say that about our business and the way we do things. I know after being in this for many years now, that not all winemakers or vineyard managers want to be involved in the public front line, so to speak. They don't necessarily care about the hospitality side. For me, I've always enjoyed all three aspects. I love being in touch with the vines and working with the vineyard. I love the winemaking stuff. Definitely at the beginning of harvest it's hard to get in the mood because you know it's gonna be a lot of long days and nights. But you get going and it's great. And then I love the hospitality side of it. I love that service. Fun Wine tasters are friendly and fun.
Speaker 3:They love the you know, you got a product they're coming after, and we also know, though, that everybody makes a different style of wine, so we may have somebody that comes here and it's not their style. That's okay, we'll direct them to some friends that we know they might fit that.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 3:You've been very hospitable to us, so we're sitting at your kitchen counter enjoying your wine on your winery and Hanks here the dog With our dog.
Speaker 1:It's been fantastic. So I did have another question from another listener. So, he wanted us to ask do you prefer cork or screw top?
Speaker 3:Corks for us, yeah, so cork, because the majority of the wine we make are reds and we want those wines to age and continue to evolve. And cork allows that Screw cap has evolved now to be able to do that similar thing, you know, but it's another expense. We're so we're very fortunate that we've been able to buy all of our own equipment to bottle and everything on site, but that's one more piece of equipment that I don't want to have to spend. You know for screw cap stuff, so you know for whites and rosé screw caps great.
Speaker 3:Personally, for me, cork still allows the wine to evolve and change over time and the technology and the way that cork is treated now is so much better than it was 30 years, 40 years ago. So they've got it figured out and we can be confident in our wines. Another thing is on our wine making style. I don't do any filtering, so I don't do any finding or filtering of the wines. So it is what it is, it's clear and it's happy. I feel like that helps the wine age even better over time.
Speaker 1:So it's been an incredible hour. So are there any questions we haven't asked or anything you want to share with those that are, you know?
Speaker 3:I feel like I spent too much time on my beginnings.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, it's been great.
Speaker 2:The backstories is good.
Speaker 1:It's very important, anything you want to share with listeners about your winery or you, the family, anything.
Speaker 3:You know, I feel like my thing is I've always continued to want to learn more about wine making, and it's going back to education and things in the past. Some of the best winemakers I know got their degrees and something completely unrelated to what they do now as a winemaker, and you know so I feel like I don't want anybody to let themselves be limited to think that they went for one direction and changed somewhere along the way to something that really led them to a passion that they really shine and enjoy more than being a broker or a you know I love it.
Speaker 1:People settle. Yeah, people settle. I've seen that it's true.
Speaker 3:So many stories where you know great winemakers went to law school or medical school and five, six years in they're like this is crazy. And then I have this lifestyle that I've enjoyed over here, having fun winemaking and just hanging out with some friends, and then all of a sudden they turn into a business, you know, and they find their true passion. It's not a hobby, it's definitely way beyond a hobby. There are so many different ways to do the wine business, especially now, and there's a multitude of different directions. You could do this and the only thing that limits is your finances. Really, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, it seems like throughout the conversation, you're having fun, which is incredibly important.
Speaker 2:You earlier were talking about the fantasy, the dream, the vision. So do you have that moment like when you go out and you're looking over the vineyard? You're like, oh, this is what I pictured.
Speaker 3:No, but I feel good. Yeah, I don't really I don't feel like I haven't completed the destiny, but I feel good about what we've done. We talk about changing and doing something else and it's like what else will we do? So I'm about to retire from my real job, my day job, hopefully in the next year or so, and do this even better.
Speaker 3:That's my goal is to be able to spend 100% of the time doing wine stuff for Pizah and do it better. So, yeah, I still love it. It's definitely some challenging times during harvest when it's just Mother Nature and all the different things you know, getting older and like.
Speaker 3:I have a purpose, you know. At least I can wake up and I feel like God. I wish I could sleep later, but I wake up and my wheels are turning and thinking about oh, I can do this, I gotta get this. I'm an over planner, over thinker. So, yeah, I got a lot of spreadsheets and a lot of stuff that I yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, it's incredible, going lots of things.
Speaker 3:A lot of planning.
Speaker 1:It's an incredible journey and incredible story, and thank you for taking the time to share it with us.
Speaker 2:I'm happy to yeah, thank you so much. I checked out the website and before I even got here I knew there was an interesting story behind it and then I know it's dark now, but the pictures and all the property looks beautiful. It looks that atmosphere that you were going for. I think it's definitely there. So really cool. It was really great. Thank you for watching.
Speaker 3:Thank you guys for coming out on a rainy December evening right before the holidays.
Speaker 2:No I appreciate it.