This week's guest is tattoo maestro Sonny Batten from Kinetic Ink. Sonny unravels his life's tapestry, inked with stories of artistry and service to veterans and first responders. There's a raw grace in Sonny's recounting of his childhood in Hartford City, Indiana, shaped by a family of artists and the lessons from "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." His narrative doesn't shy away from the turmoil of divorce or the teenage rebellion that charted his course towards the buzzing tattoo guns instead of the military drumbeat.
Imagine a world where the ink on your skin is more than a statement—it's a saga of survival, resilience, and homage. Kinetic Ink stands as a sanctuary within this realm, a place where Sonny and his team transform skin into a canvas of honor for those who've served. Our conversation peels back the layers of the tattoo industry, revealing the not-so-glamorous path of apprenticeship, the evolution of an artist, and the ideal dynamics of client collaborations. Every tattoo tells a tale, but it's the shared journey of artist and muse that weaves the most profound narratives.
At Kinetic Ink, these stories are anything but silent. Flags, coins, and patches make up the fabric of this community hub, where Sonny's passion project of offering discounts to veterans and first responders fosters a haven of gratitude. This episode is more than a listen; it's an intimate expedition through the life of an artist dedicated to the beauty of giving back—one tattoo at a time. Join us, and be inspired by Sonny's tale of art, transformation, and the indelible impact of community service.
This week's guest is tattoo maestro Sonny Batten from Kinetic Ink. Sonny unravels his life's tapestry, inked with stories of artistry and service to veterans and first responders. There's a raw grace in Sonny's recounting of his childhood in Hartford City, Indiana, shaped by a family of artists and the lessons from "Rich Dad, Poor Dad." His narrative doesn't shy away from the turmoil of divorce or the teenage rebellion that charted his course towards the buzzing tattoo guns instead of the military drumbeat.
Imagine a world where the ink on your skin is more than a statement—it's a saga of survival, resilience, and homage. Kinetic Ink stands as a sanctuary within this realm, a place where Sonny and his team transform skin into a canvas of honor for those who've served. Our conversation peels back the layers of the tattoo industry, revealing the not-so-glamorous path of apprenticeship, the evolution of an artist, and the ideal dynamics of client collaborations. Every tattoo tells a tale, but it's the shared journey of artist and muse that weaves the most profound narratives.
At Kinetic Ink, these stories are anything but silent. Flags, coins, and patches make up the fabric of this community hub, where Sonny's passion project of offering discounts to veterans and first responders fosters a haven of gratitude. This episode is more than a listen; it's an intimate expedition through the life of an artist dedicated to the beauty of giving back—one tattoo at a time. Join us, and be inspired by Sonny's tale of art, transformation, and the indelible impact of community service.
So, Anthony, tell me how we well, not we, but you know today's guest.
Speaker 2:Well, today's guest is a local tattoo artist here in the Northern California area and he actually did a tattoo for me, did a chest piece for me about two years ago, so that's how we ended up getting connected and he's an incredible artist and he also works with the veteran community as well as first responders, and I wanted to be able to tell a story, so I asked him if he'd sit down with us and share, and he was gracious enough to do it. It was a really good conversation.
Speaker 1:So you got the tattoo, obviously before we were ever doing the podcast, so how did you come across him at that time?
Speaker 2:So I had looked at a couple of different tattoo artists and I looked at his work. So I remember walking in and saying, hey, I have this idea, and he took that idea and he turned it into an awesome tattoo. He's a fantastic artist who spent his time going through it, made sure that I was good with everything all of the different pieces to it, and I couldn't be happier with him. And then that turned into an interview I love that, yeah, two years later, full circle, really cool.
Speaker 1:We talk all the time about the people you know and the doors that open and all of that. Who would have thought two years later, you know hosting a podcast that talks about local businesses, so I was excited as soon as you brought it to me and it was a good conversation. So looking forward to our listeners hearing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am too. And we got to go down and sit in his tattoo shop. We got to take a tour and that's where we actually did the interview and you were supposed to get a tattoo that day.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was just going to say we got tattoos, like make everyone think that we did now, yeah, no, we did. I thought about it, but no tattoos this time. Welcome to Tell Us your Story. The podcast that tells the diverse stories of businesses, leaders and influencers throughout Northern California. Our mission is to ignite inspiration, foster education and bring our community together. Join us as we unravel the path to achievement, discovering how these remarkable businesses and leaders navigated obstacles, conquered hardships and transformed failures into success.
Speaker 2:In today's episode. We had a great conversation with Sonny Batten of Kinetic Inc and there was a lot to be learned. The conversation went down a couple of different rabbit holes. I had a lot of fun with it, but one of them is really talking about the tattoo world and he jumps in. He dives into all of the fundamental questions that you'd want to ask, but also he talks about, you know, the women, the money, the fame, everything that we all think is going on in the tattoo world. He'll touch on to that.
Speaker 2:Another piece was his mentor. He was an apprentice, for I think it was three, three and a half years and it was not a good experience. Like there was not only just outright mental abuse but they would fight in the tattoo shop, which I just found just bizarre from the world that I live in, in the corporate world. So a couple of great stories there, and then by far what I think is the most important is the impact that he's having and how he gives back to the veterans and the first responders and it's sunny along with the organization Kinetic Inc. He talks through why that is so important to him, as well as the tattoo shop and then the organization that they work with to give money back for every tattoo that is done. So I think everybody is really going to enjoy the conversation that we had and the story that's being told. So stay motivated, stay inspired, sit back and enjoy this episode of Tell Us your Story.
Speaker 3:I was born and I grew up most of my life in Indiana. I'm a little small town in central Indiana. It's called Harford City. It's about 30 minutes from Muncie, which would be the biggest city that's around, like the closest. There's a college there called Ball State. Some people are familiar with it, but most people are familiar with Ball State or Muncie if you talk about Indiana.
Speaker 2:You can tell them Harford.
Speaker 3:City. They're like huh, like, yeah, it's Po-Dunk.
Speaker 2:How many siblings did you have? Mom and dad?
Speaker 3:I had a mom and dad and two brothers. So, man, my parents were together until I was 17. I believe it was the middle of my junior year. They split up, I think. So my senior year I kind of stayed with my dad and I had a buddy. Life was very, very strange. When you're 17 years old and everything you know just falls apart.
Speaker 2:We all come back to that. So in your younger years, the three brothers, mom and dad was it a stable household?
Speaker 3:How was your?
Speaker 2:family. When you think back to the youth, yeah, we were.
Speaker 3:I mean it was a stable household. Parents weren't drug addicts or alcoholics.
Speaker 1:Lots of love that I can remember.
Speaker 3:My mom. She was pretty much a stay-at-home mom. My dad worked like factory jobs. He drove a crane for a little while like a roofing company crane Nothing like super big, but one of those truck cranes that you drive around. We never really had a lot of money. That was. One thing that was always talked about was love. That my parents would always well, especially my mom. They would always be like money's the root of all evil. And then I grew up thinking that and how wrong that statement is. You know money is by far not the root of all evil. You know the things that some people do and the things that some people use money for. Obviously is, but there are a lot of good things that can come from money and I believe that a lot of things is perspective. Somebody can see something one way and somebody can see something another way. I read this book is called Rich Dad, poor Dad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a good book.
Speaker 3:It just completely puts it in perspective, like if you are taught something your entire life and that's all you really know, then that's kind of your outlook, that's kind of who you are, shapes, yeah, shapes who you're going to be. It does. And it's very disheartening for me to be in my 40s now, you know, and be looking back like wow, like what a different life I would have, even not having money right, but what a different life I would have had, you know, had the message been a little bit different, you know.
Speaker 2:So what was it like when you were going through let's go through middle school as you're going through middle school, so you guys didn't have money. Were you a good student? Was school a focus?
Speaker 3:No, I was never really like. I was like a CB, B minus C average kind of kid, Did it just not interest you? I was always into art and the other things sort of weren't as important to me.
Speaker 2:So when did you start to find out you had artistic ability?
Speaker 3:When I was in the kindergarten. Well, actually, I mean, I can remember drawing things from a very, very young age, wanting to know how to, like, how do I draw this Cause both of my parents were artists. But I remember one of the first things that I remember was I was going to the kindergarten assessment and they were like draw me a stick figure. And I drew a banana man. Like I drew this, you know, full character. And they were like, wow, you're really talented, you know, and it stuck with me. You know which art was always there for me, you know, obviously, before you know, like I said, I was trying to draw things and write and you know. But I was always getting in trouble in school, especially junior high, because I wasn't a good like math student. It wasn't like the best speller, you know, it wasn't terrible, but math was my absolute worst subject and so, and also I was ADHD, which in the 80s it wasn't quite diagnosed like it is nowadays I was, so I was just in trouble a lot. I was always in trouble.
Speaker 1:Were your siblings the same or were you kind of the out?
Speaker 3:I was kind of the. I was kind of the black sheep.
Speaker 1:That was the word I was looking for.
Speaker 3:You know I'm the oldest of the three and so it's so weird being the oldest.
Speaker 2:I don't know if either one of you I'm the oldest as well. Yeah, I'm the middle.
Speaker 3:The oldest always seems to get the brunt of everything and because you're the oldest, they want you to understand things that the others don't understand quite so much. So I felt like a lot of times I was, the expectation for me was a lot higher, so always felt like there was a lot more pressure. You know, being the oldest but yeah, I was a little bit different than both my brothers. My middle brother he's pretty chill till you piss him off, and then he, you know he's firecracker. My youngest brother, he's like three years younger than me. We never really got along growing up. It was always that big brother, little brother dynamic and we didn't start really getting along until we got older. But they were, they were both. You know, they were. Both had their own thing. You know. Both of them went into the military and I didn't. My brother, my middle brother, joined the military when he was a junior. So he went to boot camp, came back, finished his senior year and then went to AIT and then went to war, went to Iraq.
Speaker 2:Afghanistan. So let's go into your high school years then.
Speaker 3:So you're 17,.
Speaker 2:Your younger brother still would have been an eighth grade freshman when your parents divorced somewhere around there.
Speaker 3:I was a junior, so my youngest brother, my middle brother, was a sophomore. He's a year younger than me and my youngest brother was in the eighth grade, I think.
Speaker 2:So as your parents go through that divorce, you're still getting into a little bit of trouble.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was just lucky and never got caught.
Speaker 3:A lot of my friends did, and you know we lived in a small town so trouble was always around the corner, especially for kids that are trying to be kids, you know it wasn't like it is now, like you know, go out and party and have a good time and experiment and, you know, try something and not have to worry about like dying because of fentanyl or something and like, oh yeah, you know what I don't really like this, I'm not gonna try this anymore. You know what I mean and nowadays you know you can't do that. But yeah, definitely, I was looking over my shoulder, you know, trying not to get in trouble but doing everything that I could to get in trouble if I got caught.
Speaker 2:When did you start to fall in love with tattoos? Is it in high school? Your artistic ability, I would imagine, is developing over the years, and when does tattooing, when does it first pique your interest?
Speaker 3:That's funny because I believe I was a freshman when I was first introduced to tattooing. My cousin was a kitchen magician oh gosh, yeah, A garage warrior, you know tattoo artist who was terrible. He was just scratching everybody up, you know, just tattooing terrible tattoos on himself. And he bought this kit from this guy who was quitting and there's just like an old spaulding in Rogers, like the cheapest thing that you could get, but it was like everybody's starter kit and we were riding around in his car. He had an old like 60s barracuda and we were riding around over in Muncie. We stopped in at this tattoo shop and we go inside and there's nobody in there, like nobody. There's this dude sitting on a couch with a pad of paper just sketching and it just seemed so lonely and boring. And you know my cousin was like where is everybody?
Speaker 3:And he's, like you know, everybody's like oh you know they're out doing whatever. You know who knows. Nobody had appointments. So you know, like the apprentice was there holding down the fort gonna call somebody if somebody came in, type deal. You know I'm like that sucks.
Speaker 1:So not in love yet with the idea of tattooing.
Speaker 3:No way. I was like I want you suck, you're terrible, and this guy looks so lonely.
Speaker 1:We're tattoos. So tattoos I've now are like I mean everyone like basically has one. Was it a big thing? Or to some maybe?
Speaker 3:When I first started tattoos we're getting really well. They'd been kind of big for about 10 years, not like mainstream, like if you got a sleeve or something cool, you were stared at hard Like people were like, yeah, we're about the same generation.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, that's what I was wondering yeah it was still a little edgy when cause I'm almost edgy Like in the year 2000s, like 2003, 2004, people had been getting tattooed for a long time but the style had started to evolve from that whole biker sailor sort of scene to more art and the scene was opening up to all kinds of other artists. It was evolving at that point even before I'd started, like it was like the new school era where it was kind of like the best way that I could describe it would be kind of like pop culture art big bold lines, colorful stuff, like cartoony kind of stuff. But, like I said, my first introduction to it was Not great, so connect the dots in.
Speaker 2:So did your cousin give you a tattoo? Did you let him tattoo you? Oh no, oh wow. Did she first tattoo you? No, no.
Speaker 3:Well, as much as I did want to tattoo, like my parents were, like absolutely not super super conservative, like Indiana is a Bible belt. Like super religious, like I grew up super religious. Like my name is actually Elijah, but my brother's name this is confusing is Elisha. So when we were growing up, nobody could ever get Elijah and Elisha proper.
Speaker 3:It was always like a mix of the two, like Elijah and Elijah or Elisha and Elijah, like no, you're saying the same thing. And so my brother had red hair, my blonde hair, and so he was red and I was sunny and that's pretty much how it happened. Yeah, I had this nickname that I absolutely hated for the longest time, and I was like dad, what? Was the nickname, I'm not saying it. And my wife still, years later, she still tries to get me to tell her.
Speaker 1:Oh, your wife doesn't even know. No, oh, you're not getting up for the podcast.
Speaker 3:It's one of? No, it's one of those nicknames. It's not even that bad, honestly.
Speaker 2:But it was just the three of us.
Speaker 1:I've kept it just the three of us in the rest of the internet. His wife will kill us, like you said it on the podcast.
Speaker 3:But I was like dad, you know, we got to do something about this nickname, right? I was like, is there anything? You called me when I was a kid, you know? And he was all like, well, I used to call you sweet pea. And I was like, no, yeah, that's even worse, oh, my gosh. He's. Like well, I used to call you sunny boy. And I was like well, we can drop the boy and I can just be sunny and we can spell it with an O instead of a U, so I'm like son instead of like your son instead of the son. And so that's how my nickname happened. But, yeah, so, like I said, back to where I got off track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, first tattoo. Where does the first tattoo come in?
Speaker 3:Because I have a lot of questions about the whole tattoo world. I want to get into so what actually got me interested in the tattoo world? I was in a band in high school I think it was my, I believe it was my junior year, so it was just like two years later Like not even quite two years later, it was a year and a half something like that and I was in this band and it's called Dyer's Eve and we played like covers, like and what were you?
Speaker 2:a singer? I was a singer.
Speaker 3:We had dueling singers and it was my buddy's band and somehow, somehow I got, somehow I got involved in this band. I don't even remember how it happened, but I ended up bringing on this guy who was a drummer and he was a body piercer. He never pierced in a shop, but he wanted to be a body piercer for a long time. He was one of those like freak kind of guys. He wore trench coat, dressed like Marilyn Manson, just to kind of the date Early 2000s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to date myself, late 90s.
Speaker 3:Yeah, mid 90s.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, is that you too? Yeah, it's like about some memories, actually late 90s too, right? No, no, no, but I know the time the goth you know it was the goth kids.
Speaker 3:You know I make up skirts, you know long long dresses, black.
Speaker 2:It was a weird time, natasha, you know, like it's gotten weirder, but Everybody well, yeah it has, but I think I almost prefer the Marilyn Manson goth versus the New Age goth.
Speaker 3:But so he was. He was one of those scary kids that nobody really liked. But I thought he was cool. You could play the drums Well, I didn't even know that at first, but he had already graduated from school and so we were, we were hanging out and he got me into.
Speaker 3:He ended up getting me into like metal, like death metal and hardcore music and stuff, and so one day he gets this opportunity to go pierce at the shop in a little town called Marion in Indiana and the shop was called Wishmaster, and so I started hanging out with him on the weekends. So when I was in a school I would go over there and get a ride my parents give me a ride or him and his girlfriend would come and get me and we would go hang out. And I would just hang out in the hang out in the tattoo shop all weekend just doing art, so like Friday night, saturday, you know Saturday night, and then go home on Sunday and just hanging out with all these, all these tattoo artists and body piercers and stuff and then the clientele that's coming through.
Speaker 3:So well, yeah, but that was less of a thing for me then. You know, like it was just kind of like being a part of some a group, you know, and one of the artists was always cool with letting me watch him tattoo and so whenever I could I would go in the back because it was taboo, like if you weren't an artist, if you weren't there to get tattooed, you were not allowed in the back, you're not allowed in the room. You know, artists didn't want to have to be like looking over the shoulder, like what's he doing, what are they messing with? You know, I was still very, very cloaking dagger at that time. Not like open forums now where you can just go in and like come on over and have a seat, you know, with your friend, you know.
Speaker 3:And so real quick, so it was a privilege for me to actually be in the back and hanging out watching him work.
Speaker 2:And you're 17 at the time, 17. So what?
Speaker 3:Yeah, 16, 17. Yeah, 17. Yeah. So for those that aren't for me.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to go in and get tattooed. I'm not familiar because I've come to get tattoos, but I haven't hung out in the tattoo shop.
Speaker 2:I want to get back to late nineties, early 2000. My mind goes to. Tattoos are being done. You're partying till four or five in the morning. Like what does this culture look like? What is from the outside? People don't know. Was it professional? They're coming in, they're tattooing, people are going home. Was it a combination of oh yeah, there's some party and there's some people coming in and having a good time. What does it look like?
Speaker 3:I mean man to a 17 year old women, money, drugs, a good time Like that's what I had imagined. It's literally especially then I mean it's a bit chill now, you know, because it's more commercialized and it's everywhere but it's like being a rock star, like literally. Like wow, People love you, people like the artist, the tattoo artist, yeah. People just want you to do your artwork on them. Are you kidding me? Like people want to pay me. People want, would want to pay me to do that, like no way Very attractive.
Speaker 1:And then they want to pay me.
Speaker 3:They want to pay me more money than I ever ever even seen. You know 17,. You know what I mean. Not worked it Subway, hey, I you know. And the freedom, just like not having a clock, in being able to come and go, like you said, part get off, work, party, party until you're exhausted or you're done. You know four or five o'clock in the morning, go to sleep, wake up 12, one o'clock, go back to work, start it again. So when do the whole thing over again? So when did you? When did you? When did you? When did you when?
Speaker 2:did you? When did you? When does that decision happen, so that you're sitting there at 17? When do you decide? This is what I want to do.
Speaker 1:And I can't college yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, okay, so that's the thing I knew. I didn't want to go to college. Like, like I said, I was never like, I was never on my grades enough to be like, oh yeah, I want to go to college. Plus, like I said, I was poor kid so I knew if I went to college that was going to put my parents in debt and I don't want to do that. Also, I was tired of school. What am I going to do? You know, like I was one of those kids Everybody's like what are you going to do when you graduate? I don't know. You know, even until my, even in, even my, all the way up to my senior year, that what are you going to do when you graduate?
Speaker 2:I don't know, so you hadn't started tattooing yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I had no idea what I was going to do, Like what do you want to do?
Speaker 3:I'm like I don't know, I don't want to be a slave, I don't want to. I don't want to go work at a job that I hate. You know, like I just if I'm going to do something, I want to do, I want to be free, you know, and that was sort of my mentality. I knew I wanted to do something with art, whether it was music, because I was in bands, you know, all through high school and stuff, or whether it was something like. At first I wanted to be like a cartoonist or something like that. But the thought of drawing the same images over and over and over again made me feel like I just wanted to beat my face on the table.
Speaker 2:So you graduate, high school graduate.
Speaker 3:I did, I graduated and then so what?
Speaker 2:what direction do you go? So what happens?
Speaker 3:So this is this is where things get a little strange right. So I'm hanging out at the tattoo shop on the weekends and stuff like that, and I, I want to, I want to learn, but I realized that it costs money for an apprenticeship and I'm like I don't have money, you know.
Speaker 2:so what does it cost For those that don't know? So you want to be an apprentice?
Speaker 3:It just depends on your teacher. It could cost anywhere from 10 grand to you know 50.
Speaker 2:So you, the apprentice is paying the artist.
Speaker 3:I mean, it just depends yeah, depends on the artist, so you're pretty much teaching them your entire skill set. It's a process that takes. People always want to fast track it, but it's a process that takes years like to properly master, you know and and be a tattoo artist where you can just kind of go and do whatever. It takes a couple of years, you know, and everybody always wants to like all right, I've been doing this for a year, I'm ready to go out there and tattoo. It's like you have tattoo artists that do that, but it's it's very hard.
Speaker 2:I don't want to imagine. If you look at their tattoos after one year versus 10 years, you can see the difference.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, and self-taught tattoo artists versus a teacher taught tattoo artists. The success rate for a tattoo for somebody trying to go through an apprenticeship is is very low anyway, but you factor out a teacher, that it's even lower because you're just doing all the wrong things and you're teaching yourself all the wrong things.
Speaker 3:And then eventually, yeah, exactly. And then eventually, if you're going to get better or improve, you have to untie all those bad habits. And that's hard. It's really hard to unlearn something and to you know honestly, like, yeah, I'm doing pretty good. You know, I've taught myself like, set that ego aside and be like, okay, I was completely doing this wrong, you know. So there's a whole lot that come into play with it, you know.
Speaker 2:And so did you. Did you get an apprentice? I did I had a teacher.
Speaker 3:I was hanging out at this at this shop, right? So let's, let's go back just a little bit, right? Um, I am a senior um in high school and, uh, I missed four days of school and they expelled me. Six weeks of school, left my senior year, passing all my grades, had all my credits, everything, and, and they expelled me for this new truancy policy that they had initiated. You know, like there was no more senior skip days, and then that stuff was happening, like, and there was a new teach, uh, new principal and vice principal, and they were putting people on the chopping block, and so I I get expelled, they go, they take it before the school board and it takes them two weeks to decide whether they're going to let me come back to school or not. And so, with four weeks left, they're like, all right, we're going to let you come back to alternative school, um, but we're dropping all of your grades to zeros and we're making you pick up two new electives because you have a gym class and our class, so you have to make sure you um quality you pass those two.
Speaker 3:Now, anybody that knows anything knows that nobody starts at zero. He started at 60% and then you know you go from there. You know that's how the that's how the slide rule works. But they set me up for failure, and so I made it all the way that was. I wasn't allowed to be late, I wasn't allowed to miss a day, Um, or I was out of this program.
Speaker 3:I was there every day, did everything, got all my credits but two, and I had to watch my class walk, and it was the hardest day of my, one of the hardest days of my life that I can remember, right, you know, um, and part of the reason that I decided to go back to school was because I was going to join the army, um, and I was going to learn how to tattoo, and now I was going to go down range and tattoo on all my friends because I had my tattoo connection and I had this tattoo artist and I'm like, if I learn, you know, like if I learn how to tattoo, then I can go do this right, and so actually, it's the dream.
Speaker 3:The dream initially started as I was going to join the military and then I had to get my GED or my diploma, because they weren't going to give me the same benefits if I didn't, and so I was like, all right, I'm going to do this. And then I got offered the opportunity to be a tattoo artist and I was like, okay, you got your diploma.
Speaker 2:Got my diploma, decided not to go to the army. Decided not to go to the army. What was that decision like? Why? Why did you decide not to do that?
Speaker 3:I got the offer to become a tattoo artist and I was like I'll just become a tattoo artist and then join the military after, and so how did you get that offer?
Speaker 2:Was this from the shop that you were in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd been hanging out at the shop and one day I was watching over the guy that I'd always watched tattoo, and he was like hey, you want to learn how to tattoo?
Speaker 2:And I was like I kind of looked around, you know like yeah, and is that an apprenticeship offer or is it an offer to work in the shop? It was an apprenticeship offer.
Speaker 3:You don't usually just go right out the gate tattooing. I was like, yeah, I'd love to learn how to tattoo, but I ain't got any money, man. And he's like, all right he's like, no worries, we'll figure it out another way. You know well, you can pay it off another way. And how much was it? Was there a price?
Speaker 2:at that point. He never gave me a price.
Speaker 3:I knew it was, I knew it was expensive, but I never really actually knew how much an apprenticeship costs. My teacher was self taught. I don't think he knew how much an apprenticeship actually costs. So there's that. He was like, well, we'll work it out another way, and he pretty much was the most abusive person that I've ever met in my entire life, to you, to me, and not just to me, but just to everyone.
Speaker 3:This dude was super short, like five foot, maybe five two, so he had like super Napoleon syndrome. Plus, his dad was a jerk, beat him up all the time. I don't know if he was an alcoholic, but he was very angry, angry person and he always took it out on my teacher and being conditioned Like I was talking about earlier. You know you, you go back to that way, you're conditioned and you treat people the way that you've been treated. And so he treated people the way that he'd been treated his entire life. And I remember the first time I knew it was going to be rough If he checked me into a wall and like it was some of that, like panel board, and it broke in between the two by fours.
Speaker 2:And you were in between it.
Speaker 3:I was stuck Like this is your teacher. My teacher yeah, and he walked away.
Speaker 1:You're paying that.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean I wasn't paying money, but yeah, I was paying in blood, sweat and tears. But he walked away after he checked me into this wall and I'm up off of the. I'm on my tiptoes because he checked me up, because he's shorter than me, right? So he checks me up and I'm like all my tiptoes because I break into the wall and it grabs me. Eventually he comes and helps me get out of the wall, put pushes on the panel and I get my arm out of there. But that was the first time that I knew that it was going to be awful.
Speaker 2:So you're working for this guy? Have you gotten your first tattoo yet? Yeah, I tattooed myself. What was your first tattoo?
Speaker 1:You have yourself your very first tattoo. I did, yeah.
Speaker 3:I did this. It was like this little skull crest and I just hamburger my leg, and we were it's been covered up since it's kind of covered up.
Speaker 3:I can show you a picture of it or I can show you it on my leg. But we were at my teacher's house because by the time that I was able to pick up a machine, the shop that we had the shop that we were working at, that he was working at was starting to close and they were going to change owners and all kinds of stuff. So I was at his house and I'm sitting on the chair and I'm just chewing my leg up.
Speaker 3:And he's just looking at tattoo magazines, just like two hours later he's like you should probably stop, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:And so from there, when was your first tattoo on someone else?
Speaker 3:My first tattoo on somebody else was on this woman and it was a rose, little rose, with a name, and I told her that was a bad idea to put the name in there.
Speaker 2:And she's like no.
Speaker 3:I love him. It's okay, we'll be together forever. Six months later she saw me at the gas station and she's like, can you cover up this name?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. So how old were you when you did that tattoo? I was like 19, 20, something like that, still working for this guy under him.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, I was probably 19. So something like that.
Speaker 2:When you think back to him, what are some of the important things that he taught you about tattooing or about business?
Speaker 3:Well, he didn't really teach me much about business, but he did teach me about cleanliness. By treating me very poorly and cussing me out and talking down to me in front of my clients as well as his clients, he taught me everything, not to do, everything that I never wanted to do. Even when I had my first apprentice, I was a little bit harsh, a little hard on him because I was going from what?
Speaker 3:I'd learned, and now that I'm a seasoned veteran I realized you don't need to do that. There's really not even. I mean, there's a certain amount of hazing that comes with being an apprentice, but there's really no reason to make somebody crawl through mud and smack him in the face and treat him badly.
Speaker 2:Was that the culture back then, or is that just this shop?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, I mean, you know you're talking about hazing culturally, absolutely, it was in the tattoo world, like in a shop, Everywhere, like hazing was a thing you know, like schools, like college, high schools, colleges, it was kind of not being as big of a thing, but the military especially, Like there's a lot of hazing that happened there. You know fraternities and things like that. Like hazing was, it was like a ride of passage and nowadays it's not so much something that yeah, it is.
Speaker 3:You don't have to belittle and degrade someone to. There's a better way of breaking someone down and building them up than to treat them like less of a human than they are.
Speaker 1:So did any of this deter you? So you decided not to go to the military. You're doing tattoos. You thought you'd go to the military later. Were you, when you did the rose tattoo for that lady, like, were you all in? Did you know? Like, okay, this is like gonna be my career for the long haul. What was the decision?
Speaker 3:I think I did.
Speaker 3:Once I realized that I was getting the opportunity for an apprenticeship that I didn't have to pay money for.
Speaker 3:Like I was very young, very naive, had no idea what was proper etiquette or anything like that, what to expect, and so my personal thought on it was this is the way everyone's treated in the industry. Like this is the way apprentices are treated. It's got, I had nothing to, I had no contrast to compare it to. So it wasn't until like I'd been in a apprentice for like his apprentice for like three years where I realized like this is wrong, like there's something definitely wrong with the way that this guy's treating me. And I've talked to some artists that have had a similar experience, but more artists had a much better experience. I mean, like I said, there's a level of hazing that comes, but this dude would literally physically like beat me up, like with fists and stuff. Like he wouldn't just like talk me down and, you know, make me feel this big, you know an inch tall with his words. Like he would literally physically beat me up and I was afraid of this dude.
Speaker 3:Like you know, we all have a slight rational fear of our fathers when we're growing up, right? I was more scared of this guy than I was my dad. He was like this dude doesn't like, and not only was he just like this short Napoleon syndrome kind of character, he knew martial arts. So I wasn't trying to, I wasn't trying to get Kung food, so how?
Speaker 2:long did you work for him before you left?
Speaker 3:I think it was like three and a half years we were together and then finally he slapped me in the face one day and that was it. Like I it was.
Speaker 1:This is so wild to me that was my breaking point, like I have no idea how this helps you become a better tattoo artist.
Speaker 3:It doesn't that's so crazy. No, I knew more about fighting than tattooing.
Speaker 1:You're not changing to be a UFC fighter. No, exactly, it's very strange.
Speaker 3:So we ended up fighting, we ended up scrapping around the shop. I ended up getting the better part of him. You know, like he was like you had enough, I'm like you had enough, cause you know, like I'm 20 something years old, I'm ready to go.
Speaker 3:You know, I've been on his, I've been on this dude's face all around the shop and then it was like the weekend was over and I came back and I was like I'm taking over the shop and he's like no, you're not. And we had this big argument and I tried to fight him again. He didn't want to fight me and at that point I just took my stuff and I left, and that's kind of when I went out on my own.
Speaker 2:And how long before you came to California.
Speaker 3:No matter, I'm around. I went to North Carolina and 08. And then, I believe in like 15 or 15 or 16, we came to Cali. Well, we went to Arizona first. Is we family? Yeah, my wife and my kids, we moved to Arizona, and I definitely was not a desert person.
Speaker 1:Like I didn't like it very much.
Speaker 3:I didn't get along with my father-in-law very well. We were staying with him. Plus he had his pancreatic cancer, we had a lot of cancer, we had a lot of cancer, we had a lot of cancer, and I think it was like we were staying with him. Plus he had his pancreatic cancer, which he's still alive, still fighting today, one of the strongest people I know. You know, I believe it's like seven years now going on fighting pancreatic cancer. So, congratulations, conrad. Way to kick, way to keep kicking it. But we were there for about eight or nine months and then we decided to come to California, got out here to Cali and I was working at this little shop in Citrus Heights and it was cool for a while, but it just wasn't really my style. And I started doing this project where I would paint patriotic images and things like that on American flags and I started talking to veterans and people around the country to see what the feedback was on that.
Speaker 3:You know whether or not it was gonna be a good idea to do, and it brought me that much more closer to the veteran community. Now, when I was in Fayetteville, north Carolina, which is the home of the 82nd Airborne, was my first real introduction to the military.
Speaker 2:And you were tattooing, I fell in love with.
Speaker 3:yeah, I was tattooing and I fell in love with the 82nd Airborne. Those guys are crazy. They jump out of airplanes that there's nothing wrong you know there's nothing wrong with these airplanes and they just jump out of them. And you know they're just crazy, crazy people. And I loved it. And so all my clientele were army.
Speaker 2:And were you right outside the base? I?
Speaker 3:was. I was on Fort Bragg, I was on Yadkin Road most of the time tattooing at a couple of different shops. But yeah, man, like it was, once I went to Fayetteville I was like this is great, you know.
Speaker 2:When you think about your tattoo progression how would you describe that and what your art is? And when you look back to when you were 19, start doing tattoos to where you're at. What does that evolution look like?
Speaker 3:Oh man well you know 18, 19 years old. You know thinking about women and money. You know as a man right, not all men, obviously, but that's what that was, my like, my mind. It was like tattooing, like that's the quickest way to you know money and women. You know, like I said, it was rockstar you know Like people just wanted to hang out with you because you were a tattoo artist.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like being a pilot back in the day and everybody just wanted to hang out with you and when you look back at your work, then are you proud of that work or you're like oh, I could have done this different if I had a different teacher.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, everything's a learning curve. You know my teacher. He was terrible. After I started learning and picking up things, he stopped teaching me. So not only was he abusive, mentally and physically abusive because he was self-taught, I think there was a bit of jealousy there and so, like, once I started picking things up, he stopped teaching me. So in retrospect, had I had a teacher that taught me versus a teacher that withheld information and you know, techniques and things for me, probably would have learned a lot better, a lot faster, you know a lot more efficiently. A lot of the learning that I did was, you know, trial and error kind of thing meeting new artists, talking to them. So yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:My work back in the day, you know, was elementary. Compared to now, you know, it's grown leaps and bounds as far as consistency, and you know where my strengths lie and I absolutely know what I can do and what I can't do. And if I can't do something, I'm not afraid to be like, ah, it's not in my wheelhouse.
Speaker 2:So what is your specialty? Someone wants to come to you. What are they coming to sunny for.
Speaker 3:I do a lot of realism and like color, black and gray, A lot of black and gray, like black and shade stuff. I really love new school like that, pop culture, big line fun, fun, poppy color and things like that. But yeah, most people come to me for like realism. I do a lot of realism. A lot of American flags, nature, animals, bears, eagles things like that.
Speaker 2:Realism just an artistic ability, or is it years of practice and refinement, or a combination of both?
Speaker 3:I'm not an artist.
Speaker 2:So I, when you say real, like I couldn't draw anything that looks real.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so realism is just doing something without an outline and creating an image that stands by itself without a big black bolt outline to hold it together. And realism is it's concentrating on shadows and contrasts and tones and values and light sources and things like that. With with realism, you have to know where things go or it won't ever look real.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of shapes.
Speaker 2:Like for that shading. When you're looking at a tattoo, you've tattooed me. So when you're looking at it and you're drawing it out, how do you know? Does your mind just see like I need to shade here? Is that experience or is that artistic ability? I can't see what you see.
Speaker 3:So it's a lot of that experience. First of all, I've been doing this for 22 years now and, like I said, trial and error. But you know, you practice on different mediums paper painting. They have this fake tattoo, fake skin that you can tattoo now. So it's all just about you know, refining your skill and your craft, because nobody that ever started anything was good at it. I guarantee you like you didn't come out of the box doing something amazing.
Speaker 3:There are exceptions to all rules, obviously, but 98% of everyone comes out like, oh, that looks cool, I want to do that, and they're terrible at it. The difference is they keep going. You know. That's the difference between winners and losers. Success and failure is people that continue to do and fail and do again and finally end up with a winning equation or a solution that gets them success right, or they win. People that experience failure, loss and they and they quit. They're the only ones that never get to experience the other side of that, because you can fail 100 times, but the 101st time may be the one time that you succeed, you know, and failures never failure If you learn from it and you continue to grow.
Speaker 2:I absolutely agree.
Speaker 1:Has your art evolved, so your skill has. But the demand of people, the type of clientele I know veterans are, you know, obviously a big. Has that changed? Like, are there certain things you say, oh, I need to learn how to do this because that's what people want, or have you just always kind of known your lane and just gotten better at that? Let them come to you for that.
Speaker 3:Because I come from a melting pot area, which the Midwest is sort of a bit of everything. It's a bit of West Coast, it's a bit of East Coast and it's a bit of Midwest, north and South right. So we kind of get. We kind of get a bit of everything there. So starting out there, it wasn't like a lot of easy. You see artists that are like one-trick ponies. They do one style and one style only.
Speaker 3:I wanted to make sure that my scope was broad enough to be able to take on any tattoo that I could.
Speaker 3:So for me, for the past 22 years, and still now, I'm a student I continue to learn, I continue to evolve, I continue to grow my skill set. If there's something that I don't have in my wheelhouse, if there's a tool that I need that I just don't have, then it's time to learn that, and I consider myself a forever student and that keeps me hungry, it keeps me wanting to learn. There's so many tattoo artists that you see that at one point they were amazing or they were really good, average tattoo artists, but now they're terrible. It's because you get to a point where you go stagnant and then you kind of regress and you get complacent and you're like oh well, this is what it is. It's a way to keep me from being complacent, so that I never am fully satisfied, so that I continue to grow, because even if I'm the best artist in the shop, that doesn't mean that I've got to stop. That means I still. I just got to work harder because I don't have somebody to help me raise my ceiling. It's very cool.
Speaker 2:So we had a couple questions from people that listened. So one is around your clients what's your favorite type of client that comes to you? And then what's your worst type of client that comes to you? Like, who do you not, who do I not? Want to be coming in to say, hey, sonny, can you get this tattoo done in 10 minutes today? Like, what is the profile of your favorite?
Speaker 3:And so my favorite, my favorite kind of client, is a client that has an idea of what they want to do but they're not completely married to the idea that there's a bit of wiggle room in between so that we can work together to create something cohesive. Now, unless you just come in and your idea is just a home run you know what I'm saying Like a grand slam.
Speaker 2:How often does that happen?
Speaker 3:I say it's like one, two percent. Now with AI and things like that it's a little bit more. It happens a bit more because AI kind of just pumps it out, but most of the time I would say it's like 50 to 60 percent. People know what they want. And then there's like 40, you know like there's like 60, 40 that are like I kind of know, but I need your help. And then there are people that are so indecisive that they can't figure out what they want at all. Everybody deserves a tattoo. I just want to say that right out the gate, if you want a tattoo, you should be able to get a tattoo. But you should definitely do your homework. You should definitely have an idea of what you want and you shouldn't be afraid to tell the artist no, I don't want that. You know, because often, too often, people are like oh yeah, that's cool, and then they hate the tattoo because they were afraid to tell the artist no.
Speaker 3:So, my ideal client is someone that isn't afraid to speak their mind. You know, like hey, I don't like this and I do like this, and like I'm not willing to compromise on that, but they have an idea. But they also give the artist a bit of artistic freedom to create something, because sometimes an idea inside of your head sounds better in your head than it does once you flush it out and start like piecing it together. And part of the problem and part of the reason not really the problem part of the reason that that happens is because people don't look at artwork the same way that tattoo artists and people that art all the time look at art because you don't have to be an artist to be able to put something, to be an artist to put something together that looks beautiful and flows and and your eyes follow with the way that it's supposed to. It's much more difficult to do that when you don't have any idea of what you're doing. Yeah, so it's getting.
Speaker 1:we talk a lot about accepting or asking for recommendations. I've tried to get better at asking for ask the expert, right, like you tell me, you know, do you have a recommendation on what type of wine or where to stay somewhere? All that good stuff. So I think, with artists, that my assumption should be more people are almost looking for that is like, hey, I have a rough idea, but you do this all day. Every day You've seen things like you have a creative mind that can make it better. So I would assume that's the way that it is.
Speaker 3:So I would assume that's kind of how it goes.
Speaker 1:We did have one other question, or at least one more I don't know if you had more, but from Lisa. She asked what's your favorite tattoo you've ever done?
Speaker 3:Oh man.
Speaker 1:That's really hard to pick one, but.
Speaker 3:There are a lot of favorites. I would say probably one of the most. There are two that I can like. Really. They really stand out in my mind. One is a memorial that I did for a Marine His name is Chris and I did this Eagle Globe and anchor.
Speaker 3:I did the Eagle and the globe. I did the Eagle Realistic and then I did the globe like a metallic, like looking like almost like the pen and and it's coming out of this diamond and the Eagles wings are coming out of the diamond, so it looks three dimensional. So it's like part realism, part stencil. He brought me this. He brought me this stencil and it was pretty much a commercial piece of art, a Marine piece of art cross sabers and the EGA, the Eagle Globe and anchor inside of this diamond and the swords, the sabers were coming out of the diamond. And I was like what if we did this? But we gave the Eagle a realistic feel, he was like absolutely, and so we ended up doing around the Eagle Globe and anchor, maniling, maniling.
Speaker 3:If you don't know what maniling is, it's what you use to build a coat of arms, like the leafy sort of stuff. It's called maniling and then there's a bunch of banners with, I believe it's. I believe it was like 12 or 15 of his fellow brothers that lost their lives. So that one, that one's probably one of my favorites. It's one of my favorites because it's so special, because it means so much to him, and he's the one that gave me the K bar that I showed you for the second battalion, 23rd Marine group. Actually, after I did the tattoo, him and the existing members of second battalion 23rd group pulled their money together and bought me that K bar and put the message on there for me.
Speaker 3:He brought it to me. When he brought it to me, made me cry Like that's how emotional it was, and sometimes I feel like I'm just doing tattoos, you know. But then I get people like Chris who remind me that I'm doing much more than just tattooing.
Speaker 3:I'm giving back to these men and women on a whole nother level that I believe. I truly believe, that if I was just tattooing, I wouldn't do it anymore. I would find something else to do. I make money at it. But there has to be a purpose. At a certain point in your life, there has to be something that you're living for for more than just yourself and your family, because if you have family, it's always about family. But there also has to be something else too, you know. And so I needed a cause, I needed a purpose, and that's why kinetic ink is such great, great place.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to pause you right there because we're out an hour. So tell us a little bit about kinetic ink and the veterans as we close out. So you work with the veterans to take a few minutes to tell us about that.
Speaker 3:The shop that I'm a part of is called kinetic ink tattoo company and probably one of the greatest. I say probably. It's one of the greatest things that I've ever been a part of, hands down. I've never. I've worked all over this country and tattoo shops everywhere and I've never worked in a tattoo shop like kinetic ink with the camaraderie and the brotherhood it's. It's such a special place.
Speaker 3:It's more than just a tattoo shop, which is one of our mottos that we go by.
Speaker 3:You know, we go above and beyond to take care of the active duty of veterans and first responders that take care of our great nation and our cities and our states and they they're some of the greatest, they're some of the greatest and they just incredibly grateful for what we do for the veteran and first responder community. A portion of every tattoo that's done at kinetic ink tattoo company goes to support a veteran nonprofit organization that the owners of kinetic ink run, called warfighter overwatch and what that. That is an organization that reunites squads and units of soldiers and they do all kinds of community outreach. They provide all kinds of help as far as like substance abuse, ptsd. They have a program that they provide working dogs for firefighters to help them after they come back from like a traumatic call and things like that. I mean they're they're an amazing organization and they're connected with kinetic ink, and so we work, we work in tandem with them and we donate funds to the men and women that fight, die and support our great country.
Speaker 3:We have an honor the fallen wall at kinetic ink that has a lot of local faces and a lot of faces from all over the place to include the latest situation Well, not really the latest, but the evac in Kabul two years ago and all the men and women that lost their lives that day are on our wall, along with Danny's soldiers and so many others. But it's an incredible honor to have those men and women on our wall and the men and women that serve that come in.
Speaker 3:They love it, you know yeah, it's a place where they can feel at home, especially police officers, you know. They're kind of. They're looked at very negatively, especially nowadays, and so for them to go in and try and get a tattoo somewhere, it's hard for them to be themselves because they're afraid. You know, maybe something you know, like they're going to mess up my tattoo or put something that I don't want in it, or I just have to completely be somebody else to get a tattoo. Well, that's not kinetic ink. You come into kinetic ink and you can be who you are. If you're a police officer, you can be proud that your police officer be surrounded by you know, other first responders that are in the shop at the same time as you, and so that's. You know.
Speaker 3:We, we offer, we offer a discount to veterans and first responders on their tattoo. We cater specifically to veterans and first responders, but not only we. We tattoo on civilians as well, but we offer a discount to the veterans. And we have, we have coin. We have like two flags filled with coins. We have patches from all, from all different branches and services, from the Army, Air Force, Marines, Navy, Coast Guard. It's incredible.
Speaker 3:You name it like they're over there, and then coins from every branch that you could possibly think of, including Team Rubicon, like it's. It's just. The community that we have built at kinetic ink is beyond special, and I couldn't be prouder to be a part of it.
Speaker 2:Well, it is incredible and I appreciate you taking the time to tell us your story, so thank you for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and showing it. We'll. We'll definitely be showing pictures, but walking in the shop and seeing all of that and I think it's cool that Anthony also got a tattoo.
Speaker 3:So I heard about it.